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Talk:Specialist
Style and Usage Guide for Specialists - V1.0 - Feb 2015 The goal of this Style and Usage Guide for Specialists is to implement and maintain consistency in the look of and interaction with links to Specialists that will happen across this wiki. The vast majority of Specialists do not have enough 'unique information' about them to warrant having (and maintaining) their own separate pages. What can be said about a Gladiator: it raises ATK, and a single stack maxes out at 19998. That's about it. This information can (and should, and has been) easily collected on game-specific List pages, all of which are (and should be) linked to from main Specialist page. The general flow of user experience should be: * the user searches for, or clicks a link for, a specific Specialist * the user is funneled either through the use of REDIRECT or disambig to the main Specialist page * the user selects the 'List of Disgaea # Specialists' pertaining to the game they want information about. In order to implement and maintain consistency, please follow these guidelines: 1. Except for what is listed in '3', any and all pages that are solely named for a Specialist (ie, 'Gladiator') shall be either: 1.a. A page consisting solely of the following text: #REDIRECT Specialist 1.b. Or a page (see Pugilist for an example). The line pertaining to the Specialist shall be: *The recurring Specialist in the Disgaea series This line shall not have a period at the end. 2. Any page that might link to a Specialist by 'name' (IE: 'the Gladiator Specialist') shall link to Specialist. Retexting links to include or consist of the name of the Specialist is acceptable, IE: "the Gladiator Specialist" or "the Gladiator Specialist." (Avoid the following: "the Gladiator Specialist"; this looks silly.) 3. The exceptions to '1' are: Armsmaster - Bailiff - Lover - Mediator - Statistician. These are the only Specialists that have enough unique information about them to warrant separate pages. Linking directly to these pages in other articles is encouraged; do not send users through the main Specialist page for these Specialists. 4. Capitalization: The name of the specific Specialist should be capitalized ('Gladiator', not 'gladiator'). The word 'Specialist' should also always be capitalized, to be more in line with '5'. 5. Regarding the use of the word 'Innocents': Some of the Disgaea games switched to using the word 'Innocent' for Specialist; articles about those games should use 'Innocent/s' in both in-article text and in titles for and links to those pages. 'Innocent/s' should always be capitalized. 6. Some articles in this wiki refer to Specialists/Innocents as 'residents'. This is acceptable. Do not capitalize 'residents'. Thank you for your interest in the maintenance of information regarding Specialists. Feb 1 2011 Suggestion: Tabulate all specialists and their functions in-game in a single table on this page - no need to create separate pages. List whether or not each specialist appears in the games of the main Disgaea series. For combined specialists, mediators and lovers, list their effects and abilities in short blurbs below the main table. No need, again, for separate pages. Keep it simple. dietician strenghtens your health-points and not hit-points. :Health points and hit points are different terms used for the same thing 03:28, February 1, 2011 (UTC) Tutor vs Teacher I noticed that in Disgaea 3 Tutor raises Int and in Disgaea DS it's Teacher who raises Int. I don't have access to my other games at the moment, but I will check once I get home. Not sure how this should be represented on the table of specialists. Any suggestions from anyone? 02:25, March 7, 2011 (UTC) There IS the "Teacher" specialist at Disgaea Hour of Darkness. Can someone fix that error on the chart? Thanks! 18:23, November 26, 2012 (UTC) Newba :The chart already says that the D1 Teacher is the Tutor. Or did you mean something else?--Otherarrow (talk) 15:36, November 27, 2012 (UTC) I've got a question, does having a statistician over level 300 effect anything? Will I get no exp % boost as a result? My mage has a Sofia's Mirror with a level 314 Statistician, and she's not leveling as fast as my sword users were, and I'm fighting the same level enemies. Any one shed any light on this? Thanks DarknessCalling (talk) 02:23, February 7, 2013 (UTC) Statistician question So I'm playing Disgaea DS Hour of Darkness. I've been building up my statstician specialist to the max, and I just broke the supposed 300 limit. (I'm at 302). So does this mean that it's only effective up to 300, like diminishing returns once you go above 300, or is the information incorrect? The effective cap for Statisticians is 300 in Disgaea 1. Even though the actual cap for a single Statistician is 600, the effective cap is 300 so even if you had 64 stacks of level 600 Statisticians, the max effective cap will still be 300%.DragoniteX1 (talk) 21:23, September 9, 2013 (UTC) Mediators 1 Mediator is NOT 1% chance. I have tested it and even with 100 Mediators you aren't guaranteed for dual-stat innocent spawning ( In regards to D2:DHD at least. ) KiBoy (talk) 23:13, June 23, 2014 (UTC) How does the Teacher work? I have a question about the OTHER Teacher (the one that can raise the stat of another specialist). Does it need to be inside an equipped item, or inside the item whose world you're scouring? Thanks! -NightChime (talk) 20:46, November 3, 2014 (UTC) Inside the item that you are actully running through, otherwise it will have no effect. 14:55, November 4, 2014 (UTC) Individual Specialist pages desired? / Style Guide? One - At the very top of this page, someone set forth the idea "no need to create separate pages" for each Specialist. Because truthfully, other than Statistician (because it's so different in each game), maybe Lover (on the one hand, its own page for its own information is kind of how wikis work, on the other hand, other than a specific list of what each classes' Lover does for the class, everything you'd need to know is already in a paragraph on the main Specialist page), maybe Mediator, maybe Armsmaster... other than those four, I feel like maybe we'd be scraping the barrel to find enough to say about each Specialist. "SpecName, it raises ThisStat, it caps at XXXX, it's found in all the games / ThisSpecificGame." You know? So, question one: should there be individual pages for individual Specialists? Two - In addition to that (and/or if the answer to question one is 'no'), since there are separate pages for List of Disgaea 3 Specialists and List of Disgaea 4 Specialists (since there are so many that appear in those games that don't in 1 or 2), half of the point of the chart on this page is negated. I'm almost pondering suggesting scrapping the chart here, and, after the paragraphs of text, just have a 'see also' section (or something) that links to 'List of D1 Specs', 'd2', d3, d4. Well ok, let's make that question two: should the chart be scrapped, and we generate 'List of Disgaea 1 Specialists, List of Disgaea 2 Specialists' pages? Three - If the answer to question one is 'yes, individual pages,' I volunteer to make those pages. I then have a few questions. Is there a style guide that applies to Specialists, beyond Disgaea_Wiki:Manual_of_Style (all I can see that applies is 'bold the name of the Specialist in the first sentence')? Something I should be following for this? If I'm going to make a slew of new pages, I should at least make them correctly the first time. I'm suspecting the answer is no. Should there be one? Do we have that discussion here or on the MOS talk? I know that because I'm new, I don't want to be the person that comes in and stirs the pot too strongly. But then again, harness the energy of the newb! Haha. If I felt comfortable making sweeping decisions, I'd say, "no on the individual pages beyond the 4 mentioned, ditch the table, make the new pages, and link the Effects." So rather than an individual Gladiator page that says 'raises ATK,' just link to ATK in the Effects column of the charts. Gets the job done, without clutter. But, that's just my opinion, so I'm asking. SannaSK (talk) 23:23, February 8, 2015 (UTC) ::Yeah, like I said on Talk:Master, there really is only so much we can say on each Specialist, so I don't see the point on the individual pages. Rather have a few complete pages than a bunch of stub pages that are impossible to expand on, you know? ::Yeah, we should probably have List of D1 Specialists, List of D2, etc, which would make the chart on this page redundant. So the thing to do would be just scrap this chart and split the info on lists to lists for D1 and D2 Specialists. ::Don't worry about stirring the pot. If it's for the good of the wiki, it's all good in the end, and worst case, it'd get some constructive discussion out of it? But I agree with all of your suggested changes. Gets the job done, without clutter indeed.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:37, February 9, 2015 (UTC) ::: Awesome. I'll get started. I'll base Dis1 and Dis2 lists off of List of Disgaea 3 Specialists. But please don't just yet delete any of the individual spec's pages, I may want to copypaste some info around. b^_^ (and-slash-or, how do redirects get set up? In the end, should searching this wiki for 'Gladiator', 'Master', etc, just redirect the user to 'Specialist', and then user would click the 'List of D# Specs' to get to the specific game they want?) SannaSK (talk) 01:04, February 9, 2015 (UTC) ::::Sure thing. Tell me when you need me to deal with the individual pages. As for redirects, in this case, we'd have to manually replace the page with #REDIRECT (wherever we are putting it), but as to where...yeah, that is a good question. Since the info would be split across several pages per game, I'd think the best thing to do is, yeah, redirect them to Specialist unless they are exclusive to one game, which we'd redirect them to that game's list.--Otherarrow (talk) 01:37, February 9, 2015 (UTC) ::::: Ok whee. List of Disgaea Specialists + List of Disgaea 2 Specialists created. Linked from here and in their respective games' template-thinger. Removed giant table from here. So here's my thinking on the REDIRECTs: excepting the few individual Specialists that, in my opinion, should retain their individual pages, every other 'individual' specialist should just REDIR-Spec. If a user wants to know what an Enforcer is, they'll search, they'll get sent to Specialist, then they'll click 'Dis4 Spec List'. It's a moment's extra work for them, and saves you(/me) a lot of annoying headache now -- because also, except for the Artisan being unique to D1 and Lovers to Dis2, AFAICT all other specialists are either not unique to any game, or, there are several that are currently unique to 4 but may not be unique once 5 comes out. TLDR just REDIR-Spec (or lead to a disambiguation). Streamline where possible, beef up where necessary. ::::: Sooo having said that. This is the list of the specialists that were listed in the giant chart that I just otherwise deleted, that can be REDIR to ((Specialist)) - Dietician Master (Specialist) Gladiator (Specialist) Sentry Marksman Coach Tutor Physician Professional Firefighter Aeronaut Cryophile Pharmacist Coffee Maker Medicine Man Psychologist Social Worker Alchemist Hypnotist Witch Doctor Amnesiac Gangster Broker Manager Mentor Collector Muscleman Sprinter Pugilist (Specialist) Nerd Hard Worker Patient Sniper (Specialist) Artisan Enforcer . My assumption is, once all those links are blue from having been made into REDIRs(/links to disambigs), then, yay. Yes? ::::: The next question is: Does the create-REDIR process get applied to all the new Specs from D3&4? Blarg, probably so; I just searched for 'Reaper' (a spec from D3) and didn't even get a disambig page, but a lot of results about the monster class, and some... weapons? so yeah TLDR brb with more links. ::::: SannaSK (talk) 03:13, February 9, 2015 (UTC) ::::: Well ok I just said 'brb', but I looked at the clock and it's late. Last note before I go: IMO, I'd recommend not REDIRing these pages - Mediator - Statistician - Armsmaster - Lover - because there's sufficient stuff on them that really does seem like it should not be elsewhere. I'm on the fence about what's in Armsmaster, whether or not it should get merged into Weapon Mastery... I guess I need to hang around more and get a feel for this wiki. And also think about it another day when I'm more awake. For now, IMO let's leave it. Can always mess with it later. ::::: (Can/should I make some of those REDIRs? Or is that specifically admin territory?) ::::: SannaSK (talk) 03:31, February 9, 2015 (UTC) ::::::You can make those redirects when you get the time. It's not admin only territory or anything. (and yeah, they'll turn blue) I'd start now too, but it's late over here too ^^;;. But yeah, I'll help with redirecting those when/if I have the time tomorrow. Thanks for all the help!--Otherarrow (talk) 04:54, February 9, 2015 (UTC) :::::::And that should be it for the Specialist redirects! Now, what to do about Armsmaster...?--Otherarrow (talk) 17:40, February 9, 2015 (UTC) :: Too many colons, I'm backing this out some, haha. :: Current question. Sniper is a tier of Archer in D:HOD. Sniper is also a Specialist. If we keep things in line with, say, Pugilist or Witch Doctor, then sniper-the-tier need to be ... renamed? Moved? This is the part that goes outside the bounds of my current wiki-know-how. Do you rename the page that is currently 'sniper', thus allowing a 'new' sniper to be created as a disambig? Or... I can make a 'new' Sniper_(Disgaea), copy-paste all current sniper-the-tier data, and then disambig-ify the base page? ... now that i type it out that way, it's that second thing, innit X D. I guess that just seems like such a big change, when I've been editing this wiki for a whopping.... 24 hours now? haha. :: Because then, Sniper_(Specialist) can be VFD (what does 'vfd' mean, anyway? do you have opinion on which i should use? vfd or delete. vfd at least has 'reason='. that's kinda useful.). :: I suppooooose at some point down the line, these disambig pages 'ought' to be removed, in the sense that everything linking to them 'ought' to be altered to link to where they 'should' go. That seems super-low-priority, tho, IMO. So much else seems more important. :: I'm still pondering what to do about Armsmaster. Brain chewing on it... in the meantime, I can redir-spesh the Speshes that are more D3&4-specific. And shove the Lover stuff that's on the main Spesh page over to the Lover page. And just make everything on those two pages nicer to read. Yeahh~ :: SannaSK (talk) 00:23, February 10, 2015 (UTC) :::Fair enough on the colons. :P :::Sniper probably does need to be tagged, since there are two completely separate things. As for either renaming Sniper and making the resulting redirect a disambig, or copy/pasting the info on Sniper (Disgaea) and rewriting Sniper into a disambig, whichever works for you! We get the same result, yeah? :::I think the disambigs should never be removed, not because of linking, but searching. There are so many things that share names but are otherwise unrelated, like, for example, the three different definitions of "Dark Knight" (Living Armor's old name/D1 Tier, recurring Magic Knight tier, and now a completely new D5 class). It's easier to have the disambig to lead readers to what they are looking for. :::I think VFD means "votes for deletion" but most places I see have it as a general "delete" template. I'd use it, because it has the reason= thing. Again, I think you'd have to ask Yuan (the old admin) what the difference between the templates are. :::Yeah, the D3 and 4 specific ones could probably be redirected for better use, and Lover goes on the Lover page. And yeah, nicer to read is always nice (Sorry I haven't been good with keeping this place clean. ^^;;)--Otherarrow (talk) 01:12, February 10, 2015 (UTC) :::: Not that I exactly mind Hanako wanting to be twice as sexy (I'm beginning to associate her face with this page and it will be weird when she's gone, haha), but at what point do we say 'this article has been sufficiently expanded' and can take out the ((expand)) temp? :::: Gonna make an edit to the top chunk of this talk page. Won't remove anything, just move it to be more in-line, and put some style/usage guidelines at the top, so anyone coming in later won't have to cull through our whole convo to figure out what we were thinking. :::: Have made notes to self: to figure out and then record here, in which games they are 'Specialists' and in which, 'Innocents', and to try to alter all pages to utilize the correct nouns. Also, in which games it's called 'subduing' and in which, something else. TLDR start getting by-which-game-accurate vocab; probably will list that at the top of this page. (also still not yet done with 'list of dis3&4 spesh REDIRs'. gonna have to pause soon for the rest of the day but I should be back much later) SannaSK (talk) 16:38, February 10, 2015 (UTC) :: Ok. about 95% of what I want in the S&UG-Spesh is there. (The other 5% is mostly style-conforming guidelines that seem like they should belong in the top-level MOS anyway.) I'm inclined to, right now, not make individual pages for the D3&4 'Special' Specialists. Searching this wikia for their names tends to bring up the 'List of D# Spesh' pages already (a 'Guardian' has more than one meaning, but a 'Kinder Gardener' doesn't). If I'd had that thought earlier, I could probably have saved myself about 25 redir-spesh page creations, but whatever X D also, about 5 of those ended up being disambigs anyway, so yeah, it was worth it. :: http://disgaea.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=kinder&fulltext=Search&resultsLang=en :: http://disgaea.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=chalkboard&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns14=1# :: I'm going to consider myself 98% 'done' with Specialists - the work that I would want to do, I feel I don't have the information on hand to input (thinking specifically at the moment of the Lists-D3&4-&D2-Spesh), or again, is style-guide alterations that are too MOS-level to handle right now. So I'll stop poking Specialists with a stick, and go find something else to stickpoke, haha. SannaSK (talk) 23:28, February 11, 2015 (UTC) Style&Usage Guide Discussion Style and Usage Guide for Specialists, Version 1.0. Thoughts? On the one hand, I wonder if it comes across as... not 'pedantic' but 'wow, that many guidelines just for dealing with Specialists?' Well... yeah... guidelines need to be had, or nothing looks cohesive. I think this will help with cohesiveness. Yay, organization \o/ SannaSK (talk) 17:40, February 10, 2015 (UTC) ::Nah, it looks fine. It seems like a lot because it's so through, but it leaves no room for confusion. As for Expand, yeah, I dunno what else we need to add, yeah. I got no complaints!--Otherarrow (talk) 20:02, February 10, 2015 (UTC)